We Are The Poor: Building Global Solidarity. featuring Abahlali baseMjondolo

It's Kairos Time! We Are The Poor: Building Global Solidarity features a conversation between Thapelo Mohapi General Secretary Abahlali baseMjondolo abahlali.org, Willie Baptist, National Union of the Homeless & The Kairos Center. It is moderated by, Charon Hribar, The Kairos Center. The opening music is by the Abahlali baseMjondolo Choral Choir performing on the 15th anniversary of Abahlali baseMjondolo. 

Transcript

Good evening. My name is Charon Hribar, the Director of the Cultural Strategies for the Cairo Center, an organization whose history is rooted in the organizing of poor and homeless families. And is committed to building a broad social movement to end poverty led by the poor. We are one of the co-anchor organizations of The Poor People's Campaign, a national Call for moral revival, and we recognize the deep need to build international solidarity with poor people's movements around the world.

It is for this reason, I'm grateful to be hosting tonight's it's Kairos Time conversation. We are the poor building global solidarity. Tonight we're joined by two powerful organizers who represent movements of the poor and dispossessed, and who through their work are exposing the deep contradictions of economic and political systems that are denying basic rights and human dignity to millions of people who are forced to live in poverty.

In a world of great abundance, First, we have Thapelo Mohapi , who currently serves as the General Secretary of Abahlali baseMjondolo, The African Shack Dwellers movement. In South Africa, the Shack Dwellers movement organizes land occupations, builds communes, and campaigns against evictions and xenophobia, and for public housing. It is been described as the largest, most independent, militant and progressive social movement in Post apartheid South Africa, and has more than a hundred thousand members and 86 branches across five provinces.

Since this formation, Abahlali has dedicated itself to radical land reform project that insists on the decommodification of land. And for it's distribution use based on need. It's fought to stop the demolition of shack settlements and has fought for government to provide basic services, including electricity and sanitation and settlement communities.

Thapelo works, uh, in started his work with Abahlali in Durban and is now a political organizer in Cape Town and is working to support families facing violent government-led home invasions and evictions. Willie Baptist is the coordinator of Poverty, scholarship and leadership development at the Cairo Center.

He is a formerly homeless father of three who came out of Watts, the Watts Uprisings and the Black Student Movement. He has 50 years of experience educating, organizing amongst the poor and dispossessed, including working as a lead organizer with the United Steel Workers. As an educator and organizer with the National Union of the Homeless and its educational arm, the Annie Smart Leadership Development Institute, an education director of the Kensington Welfare Rights Union for 10 years, and a lead organizer and educator for the poor people's economic human rights campaign, as well as many other networks.

He currently serves as the senior advisor to the reconstituted National Union of the homeless and their current efforts to push forward an organizing drive among homeless people across the United States. Welcome Thapelo and Willie. Good. This relationship? Yeah. Good. Good to have you here. Um, the relationship between Abahlali and the Kairos Center is an important one and has been building for over 10 years.

Yes, and in our time we have appreciated learning from the powerful leadership of Abahlali, and the work you are doing. To continue building a movement of the poor while facing sustained levels of state violence and murder. And so I wanna begin and ask you, Thapelo, if you can share a brief description of the mission and work of ABA Holly for those that are tuning in and might not be familiar with the organizing work that you come out of.

Thank you for joining us. Okay. Thank you very much. It is such a great pleasure to be on this platform. Uh, my name is Tap Moha, of course. Uh, I'm the General Secretary of Abbas as being introduced. Um, uh, we value international solidarity. We value the, um, solidarity over the years that you have received from the care center.

Uh, we are part of the network with, um, Careo Center for years, the E S C mm-hmm. Uh, network. Um, we are very grateful. We've met a lot of comrades, have come to visit us. We've sent comrades to the us. Um, it is only when the poor, uh, the impoverished that are not recognized. They're homeless. Uh, people whose dignity are not recognized when they unite and work together.

It is when we feel that solidarity, it is because we are on our own and nobody, um, uh, uh, recognizes our dignity. Nobody recognizes who we are and therefore, uh, it is very difficult for, for us. If we do not unite, if we do not work together, it's time for us to be united and working together. So global solidarity.

It is a very, um, I think it's a very, um, you've chosen a, a, a, a, a very good title and I would've not chosen, um, uh, uh, it myself. So thank you very much for this opportunity. Yes, of course. ABBA Law is Ara of Roots social movement based in South Africa. It is the. By far the largest, um, uh, social movement to have, uh, emerged in post apartheid South Africa.

Mm-hmm. Uh, we have, uh, 150, um, membership, uh, that is in good standing. Uh, we continue to grow, uh, under very difficult circumstances. Ours is to struggle for equal society where human dignity. Respect, uh, becomes the center of, um, uh, our struggle. Um, it's of course very important to also, uh, mention that. Uh, we are a movement that condemns any act of xenophobia.

Any acts of discrimination? Uh, um, in terms, uh, I mean we have people of, of who are coming from other countries, uh, within the south. And within the African continent who have come and settled in our settle, our settlement. And we believe that a human being is a human being, wherever and whenever they find themselves.

And no human being should be subjected to, um, this, uh, high, uh, violation of human rights that we see on these days. So,

People from the L G B T I community that are a part of our community. So we are a, a diverse movement that has, has, has. Our assertion is mainly to say that we want to see a society that is just a society that is based on respect and human and, and human dignity for all human kinds, regardless of their social economic status, where they come from.

So Abahlali is a home, uh, for all human beings regardless of where they come from. Thank you, Thapelo for being able to let those tuning in, understand the tremendous. Growing work that you're doing and wanted to have to hear. 'cause I know there's been, you know, some real challenges, um, over the many years that you've been organizing and since your founding in, in, uh, 2005 that you've had over 20 leaders assassinated while building this movement.

Um, and, and years of, you know, waves of political repression. And, and this year in particular, having had four leaders that were killed, um, in your struggle for land and housing and dignity. And helping people understand, you know, what's going on, why are leaders being targeted for trying to organize for, you know, as you were saying, you know, for housing, but also human, human rights and human dignity.

Um, you know, especially in, in a place like South Africa where in your constitution, you know, this, this right to housing is, is supposed to be protected. And, um, yeah, let let us know what's, what's happening and, and why, why it's happening. Thank you very much. The, the prize for land and housing and our dignity has been paid in blood.

Mm-hmm. Um, we've been killed, we've been harassed. As I speak to you, uh, I'm in hiding. Uh, we are held, uh, I'm no longer with my community. Uh, we have been Ted, we are being targeted. We are being hunted, uh, simply because we are organizing. When you are organized, when the poor are organized outside of the ruling party, the a n c, they are seen as a threat.

We are being called a dead force. We are being undermined, um, uh, by the A n C government, the very same A n C that we thought during the apart era. We are fighting for our rights. Uh, we're fighting against the, the evils of apartheid is the same a n c that kills activists and human rights defenders like myself who are forced to go into hiding.

Mm-hmm. So this year alone, we lost four, uh, uh, comrades in, uh, uh, in the line, uh, in the fight for. Decent housing for land and for dignity. Mm-hmm. So we are being killed because, who the hell are we to organize outside of the a n c? Mm-hmm. Because when you organize outside of the ruling party, you are referred to as a dead force.

Mm-hmm. These people cannot organize a movement such as massively because the poor. Uh, not supposed to have a mindset of thinking. You must not be so the politicians must think and finish on your behalf, so you have no capacity to think because you are living in poverty. You have, because you are living in the shacks and therefore you don't think so.

There must be a white person that is behind this, these people, uh, who's driving an agenda to destroy this hard one, uh, freedom that we have. So we are being killed because of that. The a n C thinks that we are having a dead force that is actually, uh, because we cannot speak about our rights, because when we speak about our rights, where do we get to speak about our rights?

So we have lost, um, Uh, 24 comrades, uh, in total since our movement was formed in 2004 and 2 0 5 and, uh, this year alone, we've lost, um, four comrades. One in the hands of the police, and three comrades in the ana commune. Um, were assassinated. One was associated in broad daylight, ay, on the of March in on International Women's Day, um, as in broad daylight.

Um, where, where committee could see four men while he was still, uh, trying to fix an irrigation pipe for the commune. Um, four men came and opened fire at the time, and the of the branch, uh, uh, Linda, the Woodland when survive the attack, but uh, our com could not. Um, and on the 5th of May, uh, the chairperson of the Women's League, who also headed a communal kitchen.

Uh, in that, in ensuring that people who, uh, Uh, uh, get to get to eat in the evening. Um, that the, the, the communal kitchen, uh, the proceeds comes from the communal garden, from the commun, uh, po tree that, uh, chicken farm that they have. So they started, this is a commune that started with a. Eh, eh, only 12 chickens today.

They have way over 300, 300 chickens. And of course, there's a garden. If you get there, you'll see the spinach. You'll see the cabbage, you'll see the biro, you'll see, and other things that, uh, are actually healthy and organic for people to eat. The chickens are organic. The food is organic. It's a a well established community, well organized community.

We have what is called the France School where people are politically ized. And also people learn about agroecology. How do you, uh, you know, have food that is not, uh, uh, that is not processed in, in, in this way that, uh, people, uh, end up eat unhealthy food that is sold in market and so forth. So, um, in the school also, uh, next to it, uh, there is a communal kitchen.

So the community is, when you get into the community, you see, uh, a community that is working together to try to build the community in ensuring that, uh, all, everyone in the, in the community is sustained and ensuring that everyone in the community that no child goes to school, to school without on an empty stomach and no child go sleep with, with an empty stomach.

This community establishment comes. Of the government to actually look and cater for the people during the time of Covid when people were told to be on lockdown and no food was provided and nothing, and people were unemployed and no measures were provided by government, this community came up with this initiative to ensure that people are fed during this time.

Time. So it is very, uh, unfortunate that thes this as. The ANC government sees this as something that is actually, uh, not, um, something that they can promote, uh, and sees this as something that they, uh, they should, uh, tackle. So we've been facing repressions because we are organizing outside of the ruling party, and when you are organizing outside of the ruling party, you're regarded as, uh, as somebody who should be.

And imprisoned and killed. So we've got, uh, 24 activists to date. Um, and it is unfortunate that we are continuously working under these difficult circumstances and ensuring that the movement grows under these very difficult circumstances. Yeah. Um, and even though our lives are at risk, Willie, I wanted to see if you wanted to come in here.

I know this probably resonates a lot in the experiences that you have had as well, and, and thinking about, you know, this idea of providing for people's basic needs and taking leadership in doing that, like how that becomes, you know, a threat and why? Well, first of all, I. The fellow and other brothers and sisters of Abdi, uh, they've been a real inspiration to our struggle here inside the United States of the poor.

Uh, we have a long history of the struggle of the poor, uh, for dignity and for the very same things you guys are fighting for. And so we've gotten tremendous inspiration from the perseverance that you guys have displayed over the years and the relationship that we've developed, uh, with Abahlali. Uh, we really treasure this relationship, uh, inside this country.

This long struggle of the poor has been one where the poor has, uh, been subject to attacks and, uh, uh, has, uh, been kept. The most disunited, the most disorganized, the most racially segregated, the most disenfranchised. Uh, the most imprisoned section of the population here in the United States. And of course in terms of the international arena, people wouldn't think that there is a, a struggle of the poor.

That's that somehow in the United States there's the promised land, but the fact is, in the richest country in the world, there's homelessness that is growing. There's impoverishment that is growing. And, uh, our, even though our struggle is not given very much media attention or any. Any type of a voice, we are determined to organize ourselves to provide our own voice.

And this is where Abahlali, uh, really is an inspiration for what you guys have gone through. Um, the Homeless Union Union we organized in the eighties, in the nineties here, um, in some 25 states in 25. Uh, Locals, uh, chapters of the union. And, uh, uh, uh, we, at our height, we had about, uh, 25 to 35,000 members.

This is homeless folks, organizing homeless folks, and then we hooked up with other parts of, uh, of the struggles of the poor. Uh, the Kairos Center, uh, has become kind of, This network of poor organizations throughout the country in addition to the homeless union. And we are definitely, uh, uh, you know, interested and see that we need to support in whatever way we can.

The struggles of our brothers and sisters in South Africa, particularly the poor. And so, uh, I'm glad you came on to the, to the program. Uh, we want to build this relationship. Your struggle is our struggle. Uh, your victory is our victory. Your defeat is our defeat.

And if you can give Sabu, my brother Sabu, uh, hello, uh, I've known him for a while, and then really appreciate, uh, his contribution to the struggle and so that that solidarity that builds on, you know, Those of us struggling and fighting for our everyday needs and our everyday dignity. Um, and wanting to think with you for a minute, Thapelo about, you know, in these times that we're facing, you know, such oppression where you all are, are seeing this firsthand.

How do we, how do we keep growing this movement? You keep, you said you're, you know, you're continuing to grow. Um, and I think that's a lesson we want to, you know, be able to share with leaders in, in our movements and our global movement, uh, as we need to continue to build our leadership of the poor. Um, and, and seeing, you know, I, I heard some of that in like, in, in the kind of, you know, Work that's happening in the encampments and, and the, even the community gardens and all of that.

How that is able to, to meet folks and, and those to be places where people are coming together as well as the, you know, you mentioned the, the schools of Conscientization, um, that are happening. But yeah, if you could share a little bit what. What continues to bring people together, um, in these times. Okay.

Uh, thank you very much. Um, I think, um, for, for first and foremost, as a, as a, as a leader in Abahlali, uh, what has encouraged me to continue has been the resilience, um, uh, um, the resistance from members of Abahlali and, uh, the thousands members of. The rally behind us. Uh, and they have affirmed that we are on the right track and they have continued to support us.

And also what has kept us going has been the solidarity. Mm-hmm. Uh, solidarity from, uh, international, from our com, from Kairos Center and other congresses in the network and all over. Um, has shown us, that has affirmed us. You know, when you have a government that treats you as a criminal, that treats you as a dark, as a mafiaa, as a terrorist.

Um, you, you tend to lose confidence in the struggle. Yeah. But it is often a comrade, uh, from uh, another country who experienced the same thing, uh, who have, feel that, um, the comrades in South Africa are in the right struggle. Yes. So it is that, that come when we come together and work together as the poor globally, uh, that we can fight against the system because this is a system.

It's not, uh, South Africa. It's not the us It's everywhere. Yes, yes. Ed where poor people have been replaced, where poor people, um, are not recognized, their dignity. When you speak about this, uh, it sounds as if you are speaking about something that is not existence. So, uh, the poor in the US A in the US seem that people who do not exist in society, the poor in South Africa are the same.

So we must be, we, we are kept confined in these, uh, shack settlements. Yeah. So that our voice does not come out. So it is when we have a re who are outside when the media in South Africa does not want to tell our story. Yeah. Yes. But we know that we can actually voice our, our media can. And I mean, when, when you voice out to accommodate in the in, in the network.

The US will know that there are people who are still poor and suffering in South Africa. Yes. Yes. They're poor being killed in South Africa for the struggle for land and housing and uh, and, and, and of course their dignity. So, so what keeps us has been over the years, has been the solidarity. Uh, but we, we understand in the movement that solidarity is received, but solidarity is also given.

We are supporting our comrades, uh, who are continuously facing repressions in Palestine. We are, we're supporting our comrades who are being oppressed and killed, um, elsewhere in the countries where people are being confined, uh, into, um, you know, you know, um, in this sort of right wing. Uh, uh, uh, governments who see, who sees people who are coming from other countries as not human beings, but as people who are coming to destroy their economies.

So we are saying that must go away and we must all unite. But one day, um, we will be able to shine a light in the evils. That we have in our countries. Beautiful. No, beautiful. Well, well said. The fellow, uh, you know, the thing that we, we suspect very highly is that the United States government is, uh, complicit in the attacks on the poor in South Africa.

Is, uh, so-called superpower that, uh, managed to put their thumbs in every pie throughout the whole, whole World Intelligence Services is Pentagon. Uh, uh, and we know the history of the struggles in South Africa. Uh, there's a lot of complicity of our, our government. It's the same government that's attacking the encampments here in the United States.

Uh, late the board is experiencing, uh, uh, real evictions, uh, and there's been a proliferation in growth of encampments here in the United States and the, the same United States government that is no doubt supporting, uh, a n c and other. Other reaction throughout the world is the same government that's attacking the poor and dispossessing this country.

So our solidarity is, we got a common enemy we got, and so therefore, yes, uh, we have to learn from each other. We have to support each other and have to see that that's. The struggles that you guys are going through is struggles that we are going through. We have to learn from your struggle. You guys are far ahead.

You really is a, a great example of the poor, that the poor can do this, that the poor can organize that, that we can speak for ourselves, that we can think for ourselves, that we can organize ourselves, we can fight for ourself, and we can lead not only ourselves, but we can lead the entire nation. Among the ranks of the poor are geniuses, unsung saints that are having to make a way outta no way.

And Abahlali is a good example of that. Your leadership is just genius. The things that you guys are doing, uh, uh, is just tremendous and is a real encouragement for, for organizing of the poor throughout. And like you say, we gotta be united on a global level. Uh, and, uh, and so we are, we're learning that largely from you guys.

Struggle struggles. Thanks Willie. Thanks Thapelo. We are coming up close to our time, but I just wanna lift up this, you know, This mantra that we have to unite as the four across the world. That it's not just in one place. We know that. Mm-hmm. That what they don't want is us to unite. Right? They wanna keep us isolated.

They wanna keep us hidden. They wanna keep us divided. And so it's so powerful to have you join us today, um, and to learn from you all and to build, continue building this, uh, global solidarity. This. People's movement, uh, of the poor. Um, that's what we have to keep on doing. And so we will, we will definitely continue to find ways, um, to, you know, to build these movements together.

. I wanna give you the last word, um, as you've joined us today, um, to share any other last messages with the people that are tuning in, um, this evening. Yes. I wanna say to, uh, Willie. Um, you, you mention, you, you said that your struggle is our, our struggle. Hmm. Your pain is our pain. Ah, ah, yes. Yes. And we must feel each other's pain.

Yes. Yes. Um, because what is happening in the society that we are living under right now, uh, capitalism is that, um, everyone does not care about anyone. So we must. Um, society, uh, we must build a society where we can continuously feel each other's pain. Yeah. Uh, when we have pain, we must not hide it. Yeah, we must have a space where we can actually speak about these pains.

So, um, I want to open up to you today to say that, um, uh, whatever, uh, repressions that you are facing, the attacks that you are facing, we are here for you, brother, and, and I want to assure you that. That's, um, I'm not speaking, uh, or on and on my individual behalf, but I'm speaking about, uh, the more than a hundred thousand members of Abba Ambassador Jordan, who are out there, uh, who, um, will be watching this and also who will be affirming this, that, um, we, we, we, we, we value the, so that you have given us in the past.

Um, and of course we want give solidarity as well. So that we expose, uh, even, whenever, even, uh, emerges, but also at the same time, um, we must work together in ensuring that, um, those who are behind the attacks that we are facing in our respective movements are brought to book. So thank you very much combat, uh, Willie, um, I want to close with your words.

Your, your, your struggle is our struggle. Your pain is our pain. Yes. Yes. And your victory is our victory. And I want to say to you, um, that, uh, we may not see a day when, um, this world, this world is liberated and the poor, uh, emerging, but we have started a light and we hope that the next generation, uh, when we are gone, we'll continue with the struggle because this is good struggle.

This is a struggle that, um, uh, ensures equality. This is a struggle that, um, this is what the world needs and not capitalism. Yes. Yes. World does not need, uh, people who are wanting to. The, the world does not see, want to see billions of people, uh, people owning billions of um, dollars. Uh, and while there are people who go to sleep without on an empty stomach, uh, this is the, the, the, the, this is the time where the world is.

Um, you know, we are living in the most unequal world. Uh, with, uh, few, uh, people always, uh, the world of the entire world, while, uh, uh, many of us are still suffering. So it is, this is a struggle that we are willing to give our lives for. This is a struggle that we will not, uh, rest until it is achieved if, if not our children.

Our generation will thank us for having started. Mr. Thank you very much. Thank you, Thapelo. That is the both of you. Thank you, Willie. Thank you Thapelo. And I have, I gave you the closing word, but I, I'm gonna take the liberty of, of, uh, giving a closing, just refrain of a song, uh, in our movement, um, to share. In the spirit of our struggle is your struggle.

Our pain is your pain. Um, and that together, you know, we are gonna continue until we win. Um, there's a song that we say, Um, somebody's hurting our people and it's gone on far too long and we won't be silent anymore. That in this pain that we can be woken up and come together, um, and call out and, and create the change.

And so with that, um, as we close this evening, I'm just gonna sing this last refrain for us. Somebody's hurting our people, and it's gone on far too long. Yes, it's gone on far too long. I tell you. It's gone on far too long. Somebody's hurting our people and it's gone on for too long and we won't be.

Anymore.

Thank you. Sending love and strength to everyone. Abahlali, thank you all. Thank you very much. Appreciate, thank you for platform. Thank you. Much appreciate.