Rejecting the Religion of Empire: Building a Movement for Liberation. featuring: The Double Love Experience & Labor Religion Coalition

It's Kairos Time! Rejecting the Religion of Empire: Building a Movement for Liberation features two powerful devotionals that have recently been published - We Cry Justice: Reading the Bible with the Poor People's Campaign and Psalms for Black Lives. Join us to learn how these prophetic reflections on ancient texts can offer strength and hope during these challenging times. 

A Kairos Moment is a time when crisis and opportunity collide and the possibility for something new can emerge. Join the Kairos Center for a new bi-weekly series of 30 minute talks / chats with partners, collaborators, and movement builders as we discuss what’s happening and what we’re doing to respond in this kairos moment.

Chapters

• 0:00 Intro
• 1:55 Psalms For Black Lives
• 2:08 We Cry Justice: Reading the Bible With The Poor People's Campaign
• 3:28 How are we being called to respond to this Kairos Moment?
• 11:58 What Is This Battle For the Bible?
• 20:44 Being Compelled To Take Action
• 28:15 Resources and Calls To Action
• 30:41 Closing Song

Transcript

Rejecting The Religion Of Empire
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[00:00:00] We have with us this evening Reverend Dr. Gabby Kujo Wilkes and Reverend uh, Andrew Wilkes from the Double Love Experience Church in Brooklyn. We have Reverend West McNeil, executive Director of the Labor Religion Coalition of New York and tri chair of the New York State Four People's Campaign.

And our own Reverend Dr. Liz Theoharis, the director of the Kairos Center and National Co-Chair of the Poor Peoples Campaign. So welcome. It's so great to have you all here tonight and just wanted to start by saying, the idea for tonight's conversation emerged in thinking about these challenging times we're facing in this country.

A Kairos moment is a time when crisis and opportunity collide and the possibility for something new can emerge. As we kick off this Kairos series, we decided to ground ourselves in some deep reflections that are both ancient and new. So we're gonna talk about two recently published devotionals. The first came out just this month, uh, [00:01:00] written by, uh, pastor Gabby and Pastor Andrew, uh, the Psalms for Black Lives, reflections for the Work of Liberation.

And the second, just this past fall that was edited by Reverend Liz. We cry justice reading the Bible with the poor people's campaign. And before we dive right in, I just wanna give one word of appreciation to two of our We Cry justice artists, Ebony Watkins outta North Carolina, and Ana Hernandez of New York for helping to set the tone this evening in the powerful opening song and image you saw as they draw on this ancient wisdom that calls us to resist empire and set the world right again in these troubling times.

So lifting up that grounding, we wanna begin by thinking about this Kai moment we're in. What's happening in our communities and how are we being called to respond? Now when we talk about responding to the current crisis, one might not think that the first place to turn is some books on devotionals, but these two books [00:02:00] we are talking about tonight are pretty unique.

Uh, so I want to ask, uh, Reverend Gabby and Reverend Andrew and then Reverend Liz to tell us a little bit about these texts and how they came to rewritten and how. They're responding in these times. And Wes also, if you can join in this conversation around, you know, you've been part of this practice of reading the Bible with the poor, the method that we cry, justice comes out of how you found entering into scriptures in this way, powerful in your organizing work.

So for this question, we are gonna ask all of you to respond. Um, Reverend Gabby or Reverend Andrew, do you wanna start? Sure. Thank you all so much, first of all for having us. Um, congratulations to the Kairos Center for the launch of this incredible conversation series. I know that I will be glued to it, um, even beyond today.

Um, our book actually started in the context of a church wide fast at our church. The double of. Experience church in Brooklyn, New York in August of 2020. Uh, tonight is [00:03:00] doubling as our Bible study. So hey, double love. We see you all in the comments. Also, wanna celebrate our digital minister, minister Evelyn John Francois, who made sure that we would be connected, uh, tonight so that we could stream.

And Ken Miles over our community engagement work who went with us to DC for the Poor People's Campaign event in July. And he is functioning for us on our comments. Um, but in many ways, Um, this is a good example of how our devotional came to be. Um, really just doing life together, um, in the times that we live in and, um, making sure that the resources that we provide internally also have an external home.

Um, and so the work that we did for our church was for eight days. The devotional that we ended up creating with upper room books ends up being across. 30 days with different community guides and the like, uh, following. And so, um, us trying to encourage one another and encourage our congregation, um, turned into a resource that we pray encourages people that will never meet, um, but that hopefully will be able to use the [00:04:00] Psalms, um, as a way to express themselves and to see where God is in the midst of times of urgency and times of crisis.

We just simply, uh, add, um, I, I think the hope in many ways across, um, both of these devotionals is, is that they can aid in spiritual formation, uh, fostering a justice, imagination, maybe even spiritual formation plus movement formation, uh, and serve as resources for the work of not only liberation, but contesting that devotionals are not just.

Reinforcing a kind of deeply individualistic piety, uh, but instead can thread us together, thread us to God and connect neighbor to neighbor so we can do the work of, uh, holistic justice seeking.

Reverend Liz, do you wanna join in? Say a little bit about We cry justice. Sure. And it's so, um, awesome. Just awesome to be here with Pastor Gabby and Pastor Andrew and with Reverend West and, and always good to be in conversation with you [00:05:00] Sharon. Um, But yeah, the We Cry, justice, reading the Bible with the Poor People's Campaign comes out of, um, really a, a methodology and practice, um, of reading the Bible, especially those passages that are used and abused, uh, against our people, um, that we've been.

Kind of developing, participating in, um, practicing, uh, at the Kairos Center really for, for decades now. Um, and we actually, um, pulled together a cohort of, of pastors and theologians and low age workers and organizers, um, to, to kind of look more deeply into. What does it mean to be reading the Bible in these kind of times of crisis?

Um, and out of that kind of cohort of leaders, um, both, uh, the Freedom Church of the Poor was born as well as this devotional. And, and I, I think it does speak exactly to this time of crisis. [00:06:00] And, and I actually wanted to share a couple of words that. Um, Reverend Dr. William Barber, the co-chair of the Poor People's Campaign, wrote in the forward to the book.

Um, cuz I think it actually just sums up why exactly in a moment of crisis. Um, in, in, in a moment when, when old, uh, forms of injustice are, are crumbling and, and violence is everywhere. Um, But also new movements, um, for, for social transformation are breaking through. Um, we do go to the Bible and we do go to prayer, and we do go to God, um, and we go to our movement, family, um, uh, to be able to interpret these times.

And, and so he says that the title itself, we cry. Justice grows out of a phrase, often placed on the lips of the ancient prophets. The prophets were often described as crying, crying out, crying loud, crying on behalf of God. This cry had at least two dimensions. One is the cry of weeping and hurt because of the conditions of injustice, poverty, and [00:07:00] pain perpetrated by forces of empire and deception.

Sometimes the prophets, like Jeremiah would say, oh, that my head were a fountain of tears that I might cry on behalf of Israel. But the other type of crying has the characteristic of a shout, a piercing yell that cuts through all the noise of injustice and indifference. It is a blast, like a trumpet sounding an alarm.

God tells the prophet Isaiah to cry loud and spare knot and to tell the nation of her sins. This is the way that Martin Luther King Jr. And Fannie Lou Hamer and many others then and now Cry for Justice. We have so many criers like this in the Poor People's campaign. So I think it kind of speaks to, to the moment that we're living in.

And, and why devotionals? Why prayer? Why reading the Bible, um, and why, um, Interpreting what we're supposed to do with our lives, with our bodies, with our hands, with our minds, with our souls to, to be able to help realize God's reign of [00:08:00] justice here on earth. Thanks, Reverend Liz, Reverend West, let you chime in here.

Yes. Well it is so wonderful to be with you all and really, um, Appreciative and grateful for both of these texts, um, that have already, I've found a lot of sustenance in them, you know, just per, just personally and, and having conversation about it with others. Um, so I first connected with this kind of method that Reverend Liz, me, uh, mention of reading the Bible at the poor, um, almost 13 years ago now, I think is when I first encountered the Kairos Center.

And I think two things. Really stand out to me. Um, and one is kind of basic that, um, when we read the Bible together as people who have been cast aside by the Empire in our times, we're able to unearth meaning in the text that is there because these, so much of the [00:09:00] Bible is written by and for.

Communities who themselves were cast aside by the empire of their time. And it's really kind of remarkable how. Much of that gets totally missed in reading these texts when it's done separately from the communities around us, um, that are experiencing that. And so that is something that was, you know, it has been very powerful to me personally since I started this practice and just have seen it be so, um, So powerful to people both who, from a, a kind of spiritual perspective, but also certainly from a, you know, finding empowerment in recognizing ourselves in these texts.

Um, and I think the second thing is also just like the practice of reading and reflecting together is so important for movement building and building collectives. Um, And I remember [00:10:00] actually Reverend Liz giving me this advice years ago when kind of struggling through a group trying to find where we were going and giving the advice of like study together, read together.

And that I have found to be so true that taking on that practice, um, and I think there's, you know, a dimension when it's, um, when it's both like politically and spiritually grounded too, that comes to it, is just so, so important to building the kind of. Uh, solidarity and community and shared commitment that we need to get through these struggles that we're facing.

Thank you all for sharing those thoughts and, and thinking about what it means to really step into this type of reading, um, and the devotionals that come out of this practice that you all have been sharing about. And I wanted to go a little further, um, to what Reverend Leggy started to talk about passages that have been used and abused.

Um, and something I know we've talked about, uh, in the Kairos Center as thinking about what is this battle [00:11:00] for the Bible. Um, and I wanted to pull out, uh, Apart from the intro or the forward to Psalms for Black lives, um, where Reverend Dr. Otis Moss, he talks about the Psalms as poetry in an art form that bears witness with words designed to deconstruct poisonous assumptions.

He said that the Psalm were written to crush the myths of a society that infected the minds of people living in exile and replaced them with a story of God beyond human categorization, but present in human affairs. And I wanted to dig into that idea of deconstructing, deconstructing poisonous assumptions, um, and particularly for today, and these times, the myth.

Of Christian nationalism and white supremacy, um, which have both been foundational and how this country is formed and are also growing today. I'm wondering if you all could talk a little bit about how reading these biblical texts in the way you are doing them in communities of struggle, in communities that are [00:12:00] impacted by these multiple crises.

That our communities and our country is facing, how does this type of reading and going to the Bible in this way actually become a response to Christian nationalism and white supremacy? Yeah. Uh, thank you for raising that question, Dr. Sharon. Um, part of the, the naming of our book, the Literal Naming of its Psalms for Black Lives is in tribute to the Movement for Black Lives.

Um, we are millennial pastors and so the movement for black Lives is very much our. Civil Rights era, our clarion call, um, to justice and organizing that has been going on since 2012. Um, and so even in that, the hope was to decenter, um, this nationalist way of reading the Bible in opposition to justice.

This and really, uh, reclaiming the connectivity, uh, between the psalms, between, um, our biblical canon and the ways in which scripture have been used towards liberation, um, and how scripture has been used, [00:13:00] um, to read against. Um, oppression and towards liberation. And, and so, um, one of the things that was critical for us, um, was to reclaim, um, how those who have done liberation work have used the Bible, which is why we love this pairing of with We Cry, we cry Justice.

This, um, because in, in the era from 2016 until now, um, where I wouldn't say this behavior is new, but it's louder where, where, where nationalists have been emboldened, um, to, to, to talk about the Bible from the lens of oppression. It is critical. For those of us who read scripture, um, differently, um, to be just as verbose, if not more, about how scripture is actually utilized, um, both in the old and New Testament.

And so, um, what we love about the Psalms are the Psalms are very accessible. Um, whether someone has left the church because of church hurt or not, if they've been in, introduced to the church in any way, they've usually encountered the Psalms. [00:14:00] They may know Psalm 23, they may know, uh, different dimensions of Psalms that their loved ones and their grandparents have lifted up in their hearing throughout their lives.

So we wanted something accessible that was familiar, but we wanted to reclaim it for the work of justice. For the work of Lament, we have four categories, celebration, lament, um, emboldening and, and, and, and making sure that people understand that, uh, uh, my husband calls the psalms the emotion wheel of scripture, that people know that they can use every emotion they have towards the work of liberation and justice.

Thank you for sharing. Yeah. Others, please. Just so you don't have to wait for me to call on everybody, we can just jump in. No, I so love that. And, um, you know, so. Uh, the, the Bible as Willie Baptist from the Kairos Center often says, uh, is one of the, you know, most prominent forms of mass media. And it's, it, it is mass media.

It's, it's also a lot more than that. Um, [00:15:00] uh, especially to, to many of us that hold it as a, as a sacred, um, Uh, collection of stories, but he says it's one of the forms of mass media that has something good to say about the poor and marginalized and, and town trodden. Right? Uh, most forms of, of mass media, um, are blaming poor people and queer people and immigrants and people of color, black people, indigenous people, you know, for all of society's problems.

Um, you know, kind of most forms of mass media are trying to kind of. Uh, Rob Peter to pay Paul or pit us against each other or, um, or feed us this lie that this is as good as it gets. That, um, that, um, if God wanted to end poverty, if God wanted to, to overcome systemic racism, if, if God wanted, um, for everyone to thrive and not just barely survive, he would do so.

Right. Um, and, and then often they back up those, those kind of [00:16:00] assumptions, um, using different particular biblical texts. And yet, if, if you, you know, as some of our friends and read letter Christians and some other, uh, organizations across the country have done, if, if you cut the word poor or you cut the word justice out of the Bible, it falls apart.

Right. Um, and, and if, if you look at the, the most prominent themes starting in Genesis and going all the way to Revelation, you have themes of, of, uh, of justice, of, of over, of liberation, of sounding the alarm, um, and the call for. Kind of right relationship with each other, with the Earth and with God. Um, and so I, I just, I, I really do think in this moment when, when Christian nationalism and white supremacy are, are emboldened, um, came right into the center of one of our political parties.

Uh, you know, we're, we're standing there right in the Oval Office. Um, folks, you know, rioting at [00:17:00] the capitol, um, and being, uh, you know, Having less pushback, um, from the cops than, than non-violent protestors. Um, like in a moment like this, uh, To, to not concede the, the Bible to folks that are actually preaching a very heretical version of, of what, what our sacred text.

It really has to say. Um, and so again, Psalms for Black Lives, you know, we cry justice, you know, these, these efforts and, and resources that, that show that, you know, there are lessons and, um, And messages of liberation, you know, all throughout our sacred texts. And, um, and, and many of the people that have come before us in movement, you know, have, have taught us those.

Um, and, and many people that will follow in our movement's footsteps will, will also still clinging to them. Um, but, but they're there and they're true. And, [00:18:00] and, and, you know, no matter how much, uh, Uh, folks who would like to keep the status quo as it is, um, try to, you know, cover up, um, and distort, um, the message.

Um, it, it still, you know, is, is there and is clear and, uh, it's, it's powerful. I think just one other thing that comes to mind for me is that it's these. Texts and the communities are coming out from are, is also an intervention to confront the theology and religiosity that's timid or that is silent, that there are so many, and it's the, you know, coming out of mainline Protestant tradition, um, there's so many people of faith and faith leaders and faith communities that, that have yet to kind of come out as rejecting the religion of empire and.

It's time. We have to, we have to take a side in these texts, I think push us. [00:19:00] In a really important way. Yeah. I, I feel like jumping off that last point last, um, you know, I think there's ways that we can be, you know, complicit and complacent, um, in not speaking out. And, and I think how do we, especially in these times, how are these reclaiming of scriptures reclaiming of these powerful, you know, Texts that were written in the middle of struggle, that were written in the middle of responding to Empire, how did they actually compel us to take action?

Um, and I know, you know, In, um, songs from Black Lives, uh, Reverend Gabby you were talking about, I know you all started to talk about an idea of starting to develop a justice imagination. Um, like how do we have to, what do we have to do to actually be compelled to take action? And I wanted to lift up also, um, one quote that Bishop Barbara put out in, in the Forward to We Cry Justice and, and saying that the Bible was not just a book of the church or a guide for personal devotion, but it was a book.[00:20:00] 

Of the movement. Um, right. And so this idea that this being a book of the movement, how do these texts, how do these devotionals, how do, how do they compel us to take action? I think this is actually gonna be where we, we leave our evening. So I'll let you all take your time on this question. Sure. Uh, happy to, um, wait in, into the water.

Um, I think one of the, the first aspects of. Um, forging a justice imagination that, that we lift up in, in the book, and that I think is present in the Psalms themselves, particularly as it relates to rejecting the religion of empire is in, um, in often cited Psalm in some context, Psalm 24, which says, uh, the earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof.

Uh, and if the Earth is the Lord's, it surely does not belong to America. It surely does not belong to leading countries that the International Monetary Fund, the World Bank and et cetera. And so it, it provides a bridge for pushing against ecological devastation. Provides a bridge for talking about environmental justice.

It [00:21:00] provides the context for us to use, uh, as Reverend Liz mentioned. Prescription not only as a source of sustenance and replenishment, but that kind of positive mass media building, uh, a popular narrative that can kind of push back against some of the distorted, um, nationalizing of, of, of scription. So I think it's important for us to recognize that we don't have to accept the false choice between scripture as a tool for, uh, refueling our spirits, reentering us, uh, and scripture as a tool for, um, Braiding and weaving together a narrative justice tho.

Those are actually interwoven and indivisible. Functions of a healthy and holistic use of scripture. Uh, so I, I just had to get, get one of my go-tos out there. So I'm coming before I think is a blessing for, and another reason why that, that concept of justice imagination matters to us so much is that it is not accidental.

That this is the devotional resource. And I would guess the same for We Cry justice, because [00:22:00] sometimes we can get. So caught in the text and so caught in the research that we forget to penetrate the heart and the very core of our spiritual formation. But, uh, the Christian, uh, faith that we share is a personal faith.

It is an intimate faith, and so when you sit with devotionals, you have the opportunity to get past, uh, solely the intellect, while the intellect is necessary, but to penetrate your heart and mind and to remember what you actually believe about God in the first place. Why you wake up every day and continue to, uh, put boots on the ground and do this work?

And so the hope is that in doing the devotional work daily, you reignite your imagination. You literally reignite your capacity to dream justice again, right? To see something beyond what the conditions of each day gives you. And so our hope is that the devotional format encourages your soul, um, in a way that simply reading the headlines and strategizing and putting boots on the ground can only do so much of.[00:23:00] 

And so we really do hope that your soul feels fed, um, through the tool of devotional, which is the work of the devotional alongside whatever strategy or operationalized action may come as a result of your soul being restored. Thank you. That's beautiful. Uh, I know it's so many times, uh, in this work, it's, we, we carry a heavy burden, uh, and.

You know, and also the beauty of doing this work, but how much we need to be restored to do it. I mean, absolutely. Um, and I think that is such a strength of the poor people's campaign that, that I've experienced and, um, is. The integration of, um, of this moral and spiritual grounding and also arts and culture.

And, um, you know, Reverend Gabby and Andrew also talk a lot about kind of this like aesthetic piece of, um, of this like the, the justice imagination, right? The, the, the beauty of it. And [00:24:00] that we, we have to engage in this with our whole selves, um, or. We're not gonna make it is, is, you know, really how I feel.

And it's just so, um, helpful I think to, to, to think about this, um, notion of beauty, um, and abundance and, and art and culture and imagination. Um, you know, one of my favorite texts is, is from Isaiah. Um, and it's a text where actually, um, The prophet is reminding us that the poor and everybody deserves beautiful, luxurious things.

Um, I feel like in the work sometimes, you know, we, we we're so focused on, on, you know, living wages and guaranteed income and, uh, you know, strong welfare programs and, and Dan debt cancellation, and we have to be focused on all of those things. But sometimes we, we, we don't talk about the, the idea that, that God, You [00:25:00] know, created enough and more then, um, and the fullness thereof right from, from that Psalm 24.

Um, and that, that, that worst were to, you know, revel in it and, and enjoy it. Um, and that everybody deserves, you know, beauty and time off and relaxation. Um, and that also our whole society is supposed to be organized that way. I mean, you know, the whole organizing principle of the Sabbath, of the shta of the Jubilee, You know, prescriptions is both about individual kind of rest and beauty and imagination.

Uh, so also the whole nation, the whole world, all of creation can also kind of imagine and rest and, and right the wrongs of society. And, and I just think that, that it's such a good model for the, the kind of work we're trying to do. Um, And, and it's, and it's again what's over [00:26:00] and over again in our sacred texts.

Um, you know, when people come at us and say, you know, that it's just not possible. And if, you know, if, if God was interested in these kinds of programs, then, then they would've realized themselves, you know, throughout history in Jesus's time and the prophet's times, and, and yet that, They're these different programs and these different ideas and these different policies, you know, are, um, and they're about, you know, paying people right, and not mistreating folks and, um, and lifting from the bottom so that everybody can rise.

And, and, and that's. That's the message. Um, that's the message of our devotionals, and that's the message of our sacred texts. I wanna thank you all for sharing your thoughts this evening. Um, the time is always too short and I want to just lift up these last few ideas that we are dreaming justice. And that those dreaming of what is possible, not just, you know, it's not a dream that can't be achieved, but it's, [00:27:00] these texts remind us that this is what we are called to live in, in this lifetime.

Um, and call us to us as Reverend Liz is saying, rebel in the abundance that God has created for us. And so, you know, as we put in the chat, um, I think we'll be listing the links where you can go and, and have access to, um, sounds For Black Lives and We Cry Justice. Um, and there are other resources that you can be using connected to, um, some for Black Lives, uh, uh, Reverend Gabby or Reverend Wilkes to do, or Reverend Andrew.

Did you wanna say just a word about that ending? Uh, the call to action? Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much. Thank you all again for having us. Um, and, uh, we definitely wanna lift up as a call to action. Um, if you get a chance to pick up the book, either physically or as an ebook in the back, um, is something we call songs for Black Lives, a Community and congregational guide.

Um, and so this. Book can be experienced [00:28:00] individually, but we think it is experienced best in community. And so one of the calls to action that we would love to leave with folks is, um, to take a look at the back of this book and, and try to move through some of these resources. Um, we try to put questions out there that help us to, um, Uh, be aware of how we're showing up and sit in shared space and, and making sure that, uh, as this word continues to kind of pull from us, that we're refueling ourselves and showing up the way, uh, that we, that we need to so that we can serve ourselves, well, serve our communities well, um, and, and serve God.

12. Um, and so hopefully the resources in the back of this book, um, are helpful both at an individual level and a communal level. Thanks so much. Yeah. And, um, and for We Cry Justice, uh, we've continued to pair, um, different series for Advent and Lent. You can follow the Kairos Center and find those resources that, that continue to find ways to, again, read these, this devotional in community, um, and, and calling us to take action.

In [00:29:00] doing so, um, there's also, as we lifted up the role of arts and culture, at the end of our conversation, a companion project, the We Cry, justice Cultural Arts. Project, um, that we featured a, a song and, and images from at the beginning. Um, and, you know, continue to all of the chapters that are accompanied by different art pieces to help us imagine, um, a world where justice can be achieved.

Uh, so with that, um, I think there'll be a few other links in the chat. Uh, To join with the Kairos Center to join with the Four People's Campaign to join with Labor Religion Coalition as we map out the next coming actions in this fall. And we are gonna close out with this song, uh, and this song is, Called new and unsettling force.

Uh, it comes from a quote from Dr. King who tells us that if the poor organized to take action together, we will be a new and unsettling force in our complete complacent national life. Then so much of what we've heard this evening, um, and it will be performed [00:30:00] uh, by none other than the Reverend West McNeil that's here on the call with us.

So thank you. Welcome to it's Kairos time.[00:31:00]